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« Static Analysis | Main | Office Open XML »

November 21, 2005

Comments

Drazen Dotlic

>> I suspect a whole host of violations of the Joel test, yet magically we have a major operating system.

This is a well known paradox. The less strict things are the faster they get wider adoption.
Have a look at RSS as a standard. It's mostly open to interpretation of each and every publisher, does not have strict schema, many people publish what's not even a well-formed XML... yet it is the most widespread syndication format.
Contrast that with Atom which is a lot more precise and strict, younger and thus is some circles more cool and still Atom is distant second syndication format.

Technologies succeed often in spite of their simplicity and not thanks to their quality. Same goes with methodologies - people do/use what is simple and works.

Geoff Webb

Scoring well on the Joel Test is more a measure of a team's capability then an indicator of any one project's success.

Some projects succeed in spite of themselves. A team that scores well on the Joel Test is able to consistantly produce high quality software.

Adam Keys

I don't want to be a zealot, so I'll try to keep this brief.

"XP doesn't do upfront design, so it may fail the specs test. Programmers work and communicate in pairs, so working conditions aren’t quiet. XP emphasizes unit testing at the expense of independent testers."

XP doesn't do detailed upfront design that produces a detailed spec. There is still room for deciding which features are the most important to build first, with it the implicit need to understand what is important. To say XP doesn't do design is a very poor choice of words.

Similarly, to say XP unit testing comes at the expense of independent testing is another poor choice of words. Nothing in XP says you can't have a traditional testing/QA team. XP simply suggests that there is another class of testing that is useful and productive.

Mike Gale

I saw a pretty harsh piece by Paul Graham yesterday.

It basically said that really competent developers don't need a lot of the crutches of modern software development. They are good enough to "just do it". In contrast he says typical corporate developers are not much good and the tools stop them really fouling up the project.

These ideas are worth considering.

Basically there are a lot of ways to develop software. Some suit some people some suit others. The current crop of OO, Unit...-Tests, coverage, NDoc... Can swamp the process and turn a motivated high productivity programmer into a low productivity drone. Especially on slow hardware.

Joel's opinion is based on what he knows and does. It doesn't apply everywhere and to everyone. Graham's opinion doesn't apply universally either. (The test is stated too dogmatically, in my view, and for small teams is probably way off target more often than not!!)

The essence is to understand the issues, understand the team, understand the tools and do what seems right. If you push the limits it's good, if you don't you may be heading to the drone park.

David Douglass

If only it were this simple. While the list certainly contains some good ideas, the health of something as complex as a software development organization can't be measured by a little quiz.

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